aimless conversations: like an intermission where the band keeps playing

Hanson Should Allow Open Taping of Their Live Shows...

krissytina:
Every show is different, always a lot different than the actual album versions.

Live taping allows people who can't afford to go to a show, or can't afford to buy the DVD the opportunity to hear the show, like they were there. Taping also allows fans to get to know each other better through trading shows, not SELLING shows, but TRADING them. It's great for the aspiring audio engineers/sound mixers/sound designers such as myself to learn how to mix a live show.

Other bands such as Maroon5, John Mayer, Glen Phillips (formerly of Toad the Wet Sprocket), and Nickel Creek allow it, depending on the venue.

I think it's a great way for Hanson to attract more fans, because by allowing taping, the live versions of their songs will get out, possibly attract new attention to their songwriting and musical talent (in case someone didn't already know, of course) by the right people that Hanson may need.

Just something to think about...

littlenicola:
I prefer the idea of being able to buy a live CD of that show right after it...trading live shows can get very complicated, trust me.

RachyG:
Yeah Michal Tolcher does that too....but I can understand how it could get complicated. It would be really groovy if they hired someone to record it and then have them burn cds and sell them. Nothing fancy. LoL

krissytina:
I know it could get complicated, but I've recorded 1000s of shows for other artists, not once has it gotten legal. In fact, I've made good acquaintances with those in the band who find it fascinating that I love their music that much to do this as a hobby. They are always pleased to hear one of my recordings, especially to hear how they performed that night. Kind of like how college basketball teams watch videos of how they played so they can see what they need to work on, etc.

mindtoreality:
I guess they're probably afraid of people selling them and not just trading? Maybe?

melkncookie:
My boyfriend is a taper and I totally agree with you. I know there are some fears with artists that people could make a profit from it and I understand that. But there are a lot of benefits about it as well. I think Hanson is a great live band and I don't think any of their albums really catch that except for Live From Albertane (and I think they have improved greatly since then in their live performances). The only other issue that my boyfriend pointed out was the amount of screaming you get at concerts. Unless it's a board feed or you've got some really expensive equipment, you can't excape it (well unless Hanson fans shut up for once... sorry but the screaming annoys me). My boyfriend doesn't like Hanson but said if they allowed taping he would tape them lol.

As for it being a complicated process... I don't really think it is. I guess it depends on the person who is taping but most of the tapers I know are more than willing to explain how to get their shows (either by downloading or B&P... which means blanks and postage so you send a cd with a self addressed envelope that the taper sends the concert back to you in on your cd). It's actually more complicated for the taper than anyone else. My boyfriend spends a lot of time doing this and does it for free.

Krissytina if you want to check out my boyfriend's website you can see all the shows he's taped.

MelFan4Life:
It would be nice for the people who actually want it for themselves, but too many people would sell it on EBAY.

melkncookie:
The thing is if it is easy to get them for free from someone else then why would you buy them? That's the reason other bands don't have this issue because people know not to buy the live recordings because they can get them for free. Though I can see how Hanson fans might not figure this out.

fangirl:
i am totally for taping, the only thing is, its very complicated for newbies, like myself, because there are so many etiquettes and rules to adhere too to keep it legal. one thing i do support, and i think phish and metallica are doing this, is being able to download the shows on the web almost as soon as they happen, for a couple of dollars a song. that way youre guranteed good quality and theres no messiness of mucking it up.

zeus22:
I think I like the live CD better, because it would be hard to watch the show as you're taping it.

krissytina:
No, not necessarily. It's not hard to tape a show while you're watching it. I can set up a rig and not think about it the whole show, since it would be freestanding. That, or, if I was wearing the mics, then i wouldn't dance (which is okay cause i don't dance anyway).

And, it's easy to report something on Ebay that shouldn't be sold. Easy.

thanks melissa, I've always wondered what B+P actually means! lol And you're right, the only trouble is for the taper, who (if they are like me, sees audio mixing as a hobby - WITHOUT GETTING PAID). Really, who needs to get paid if you love doing it anyway?

They could always NOT allow board feeds (feeds directly from the sound board eliminates much screaming) which is what most bands do. That way, no one would want to buy them, only request them for free.

theflaminglip:
I don't think taping would work at a Hanson show. The crowd is just too much. No matter how close to a speaker you got, it'd still be overwhelmed by crowd noise.

krissytina:
You'd think so, but I've been able to get rid of most crowd noise in ProTools. My recordings have actually been pretty crowd/scream free.

mollyjones:
It works for the Dead. People said that it would kill them... but their attendance at shows went up... if a band is good live and people see this then they want to go...

fangirl:
the screaming is the only thing, but if hanson were to let you tape, without board feed, you'd make sure you stood in the prime spot, and then protool it. you think of what's floating around the internet right now -- the quality isn't too bad. the only one that sounds like hairballs is carnegie, and that's because of the acoustics. with smaller venues and smaller crowds nowadays, quality isn't much of an issue.

melkncookie:
Yeah it's not really an issue for watching the show. Usually a taper has got it down to a tee so they can sit back (or stand) and relax during the show. Occasionally I become the human shield of the stand lol. I don't mind though. It doesn't really affect my watching the show but I could see how Hanson fans might not get it and then I would have that issue.

Yeah you can edit crowd noise. My boyfriend just really hates when there is that one person who is like yelling right next to his stand. If he can jack his stand up high enough it's usually okay but sometimes venues are pains in the bum. This is more a Portland venue issue, Portland, OR is not a very taper friendly town. So sometimes a venue will require his stand to be a certain height (sholder height usually). This is what happened when we went to the John Mayer/Maroon 5 show and there were people in box seats behind us screaming right into his mics. My boyfriend was so p.o.ed but that's just because people are so naive.

faerieclaire:
i think selling the cds would be a BIG hassle. sure, you could report it on ebay or something, but that's not the only site to sell things on. i just don't think it'd be worth it because of the time it would take to regulate it. take guitar picks for example, people grab those up and shows, turn around and sell them for $300 on ebay. i don't know what's worse... the fact that people do that or the fact that people actually BUY them...

crowd noise isn't an issue if you have someone recording the show who's not in the middle of everything and who isn't a screamer. have any of you heard the hammerstein show from 2000? it is flawless as far as bootleg live recordings go. all music, very little crowd noise. it's not as big of a problem as you might think...

krissytina:
all I'm saying is, that it will actually help them. And, if anything gets sold, all other fans out there all know the rules, so we'd all report them. And, those who violated those rules, would be punished to the full extent of the law - fines, jail time, whatever incurs.

I think I might send Hanson a copy of what I've recorded with my DAT recorder. They are all really good quality, and I think it might give Hanson a small perspective that people other than themselves are interested in audio, too.

faerieclaire:
definitely a great idea k. i wish it were a perfect world and you didn't have to worry about all the 'what ifs.'

random thought - can you imagine a bunch of hanson fans locked up in jail? i think that'd be more of a punishment for the people in their cell block rather than a punishment for them. singing "mmmbop" until all hours... heh...

pianoplayer0o:
i have a lot of comments.

I guess they're probably afraid of people selling them and not just trading? Maybe?

if they are, they need to learn a bit more about taping. i'm in the mayer fanbase, and in my time of being active, i've seen maybe one or two people selling the shows - and fans reported them. if someone sells it - it potentially will ruin it for EVERY FAN. like was already mentioned - why buy it when you can send someone a CD, SASE & get it for free? it's a great way to build community within a fanbase.

i am totally for taping, the only thing is, its very complicated for newbies, like myself, because there are so many etiquettes and rules to adhere too to keep it legal.

how is it complicated? what are the etiquettes and rules of taping that you're talking about? do you mean like - being a taper or being a trader? i'm not a taper, i'm a trader, and its not too hard to understand.

This is what happened when we went to the John Mayer/Maroon 5 show and there were people in box seats behind us screaming right into his mics. My boyfriend was so p.o.ed but that's just because people are so naive.

did he make a post on MSM about it? weird. i read about the being analness of the CCAMP security and crap, made me mad... was that the show?

melkncookie:
did he make a post on MSM about it? weird. i read about the being analness of the CCAMP security and crap, made me mad. .. was that the show?

<å>Yeah he posted about it on MSM. I think he posted under the thread about the Clark County show. Security had never delt with a taper before so I think they figured that they should come up with some new rules before the show started. It was pretty obvious that it was a security decision, not Mayer's management. My boyfriend was going to try and tape on the side near the speakers but then they were like "well now you have to have the stand at sholder level sitting down" *rolls eyes*. Like that is logical when the speakers are up on the stage which is 5 feet off the ground. So he set up by the soundboard not thinking about the box seat people and we look over and 2 drunk mothers and their 2 screaming "I love you John" daughters are all right next to the mics. They were actually bumping into it while they were dancing around. My boyfriend isn't big on confrontation. It wasn't that great of show for either of us (John was great but the atmosphere was less than desirable). I had two chain smokers next to me (even though that is supposed to be a rule there as well... no smoking in the amphitheater but some how no one cared to point that out to these people).

I think if Hanson allowed taping that they would need to educate their fans on how it works because from this post it is pretty obvious that not a lot of people know how it works. I'm not suggesting Hanson fans should go out and tape because the majority of them aren't tapers. I want some quality recordings from people who have been doing it for awhile. Tapers do have an interest... there is always talk about Hanson on the taper boards (usually negative but I think the fact that Hanson gets mentioned regularly is a sign that they would probably still tape out of curiousity).

krissytina:
I'm a regular lurker of the Glen and Nickel Creek boards. I've posted many times about Hanson and haven't ever received a negative response - well, intentionally negative (that's what i think anyway). Mostly comments like, "Whatever happened to them?" and "Do they still sing Mmmbop?" In fact, on those boards, I've recommended many songs for them to download on iTunes. And they've loved every single one of them!

And, I totally forgot that John Mayer allows taping. He's another big artist these days, which may even make other bands out there join on the bandwagon.

last thing, promise... Didn't Zac say one time in an interview that he enjoys hearing live versions of shows and thinks that trading live shows is great? I think he said that trading albums and album version songs is what is killing a lot of artists out there nowadays. But I'm pretty sure that he said he supported trading of live shows/songs. Can anyone back me up on that?

melkncookie:
Yes there was an article. And I just found it again. Here's what Zac said:

ZAC: "And actually, I'm kind of for that, really, the recording of live stuff. I think that's cool. I actually wish that Napster existed purely for the trading of live tapes. Because I think that's kind of cool, because another... it's just a different medium."

And here's the link to the article.

I've been looking for the article since you posted this topic and I finally found it lol.

Oh and I was meaning tapers on the sharingthegroove website make negative comments about Hanson. Sometimes I laugh though because they seem to bring up Hanson a lot for not liking them. That's why I believe that there is an interest. Not everyone though makes fun of them, actually quiet a few defend Hanson.

fangirl:
i got muddled with the little ettiqutes like waiting two weeks to request show on forums and the right way to request... i'm a little better at it now, but i was just so new to john mayer forums (this was on the trading forums) and that didn't go down too well.

i think if hanson were almost actively involved with the trading, like, there was a page on h.net, availible to members and non members (NOT a forum sticky, but an actual link in those little buttons up the top) that explained the rules, the ettiqutes, and what to do if a problem arises (like selling). And then have a public forum dedicated to trading requests and whatso.

the only thing is whoever starts off taping shows is going to have a HUGE task ahead of them... which is why being able to download songs induvidually from the website is an option i still like.

krissytina:
hey fangirl, totally agree with you on that one. There would be a set of rules up at the top and especially, a forum just to talk about it all.

But, you are right. There are going to be a heck of a lot of people requesting, and downright bombarding tapers with their requests. My cousin started her own website with her other taper friends for Toad recordings. It's called ComeBackDownload.com. If there were more interest out there with other tapers willing to do it with me, I'd definitely start a website for downloads only.

pianoplayer0o:
I think if Hanson allowed taping that they would need to educate their fans on how it works because from this post it is pretty obvious that not a lot of people know how it works. I'm not suggesting Hanson fans should go out and tape because the majority of them aren't tapers. I want some quality recordings from people who have been doing it for awhile. Tapers do have an interest...there is always talk about Hanson on the taper boards (usually negative but I think the fact that Hanson gets mentioned regularly is a sign that they would probably still tape out of curiousity).

agreed. yeah - your bf's post is one i read. the people at the cc show just blew. at one point in time , two drunk girls got all next to me and i wanted to punch them. & i hated security... they should have just let people crowd the front, because a bunch of the girls in the front row got bumped up from lawn seats - they were there to see MAROON 5. i was pissed. anyway. haha.

i think that hanson COULD start taping/trading - people would have to understand that it wouldnt be EVERY SHOW. i agree with you 100% on the having good quality thing - just starting out with 4 or 5 shows could work, because then it wouldn't be like jumping into a huge sea of hundreds of shows.

Rosebud:
I don't think they should allow open taping. It would be nice if they had one person to go with them on their tours and tape each one though so that people can get a copy if they wanted to. That might cost a lot of money though and not everyone will want a copy of each show. lol

faerieclaire:
people would have to understand that it wouldnt be EVERY SHOW.

you do remember what fan base you're talking about, right? ;) god, i can just imagine the whining now...

krissytina:
Open taping would allow for an interactive fanbase - not that we aren't already, but for us Music enthusiasts/Avid tapers, it would be great if i could tape my favorite band openly and trade. This way, it would have TOTALLY, COMPLETELY and UTTERLY nothing to do with Hanson. They wouldn't be involved unless of course someone broke the law, AND, having someone follow them around taping each show is pointless since those recordings would be for profit, and Hanson would have to incur an extra expense. This is a way for us to do a favor for ourselves and other hanson fans (and non hanson fans) instead of having to constantly wait on them to do it for us.

And, you'd be surprised how many shows each person would want a copy of. I followed Glen and Nickel Creek up and down the east coast for a total of 2 weeks. It was rewarding to be able to use the different equipment i own, but, more importantly, it made me realize just how horrible touring was. You get so tired so easily, etc. It made me really sympathize with bands who tour, especially Hanson who have a very large entourage of family, friends and roadies.

I get requests all the time from people wanting to know what the artist bantered about at that show. Or, even better, if a rare song was played. It's amazing what one live version of a song can do to you.

fangirl:
I get requests all the time from people wanting to know what the artist bantered about at that show. Or, even better, if a rare song was played. It's amazing what one live version of a song can do to you.

i've never seen hanson in concert, and they always edit out their onstage banter, so i'm totally curious to hear it. and, well, remember 'dirrty'? that was a song everyone wanted to hear... as for live versions of songs, i thoroughly hated john mayer's 'daughters' until i heard it live. different story, now. *smiles*

krissytina:
as for live versions of songs, i thoroughly hated john mayer's 'daughters' until i heard it live. different story, now. *smiles*

hehe, as artists, they're entitled to try different things. But yeah, I totally understand you. However, there's this acoustic version of "All You Wanted" by Michelle Branch that i just LOOOOOOOOOVE. She also performed it on Jay Leno the same way.

faerieclaire:
acoustic is so beautiful. i realized that today while listening to maroon 5's acoustic ep. *sighs* [sorry, i know that was random and off topic...lol.]

fangirl:
awesome posts like this are always derailed by us, claire... swoon, i know what you mean by acoustic stuff though. my dvd arrived the other day -- who thought that 'where's the love' would become my new favourite song of the mo'?!

krissytina:
I just ordered the Maroon5 acoustic EP off of Amazon! So many people here have been raving about it, so I decided to get it, cause I love their regular album - LOVE LOVE LOVE IT.

It turns out my favorite songs off the album have also become my favorite acoustic songs on the DVD - Runaway Run, Crazy Beautiful, River, etc. etc.

Don't worry if it's off topic :D I tend to do the same thing!

pianoplayer0o:
from what i've seen of hanson live (keep in mind i live in the northwest, so not very much to use) they have limited stage banter, and their talk onstage is like "youre a rockin crowd!" "rock on <>" "its great to be back in <>"... theres never anything interesting. like:.. for exapmle, since someone brought up mayer... every show of his, he says funny crap and tells stories, and each show gives you a different piece of banter that you could never get at a different show.

for hanson, it seems like open taping would be for the music (which they really dont change up as much as other artists either).

keep in mind that i live in seattle, so this is based on the 3 shows i've been able to see (1998, 2000 & 2003).

fangirl:
i would be interested in hearing hanson tapes because they change the setlist every night, and play different songs. i've never seen hanson play (i live in australia, currently living in sweden for the year) so the only exposure i get to the live music is what they release on video and dvd, and whatever happens to get bootlegged. everyone talks about how exciting the live show is, so i would like a little glimpse of this beyond the official stuff that gets released every couple of years.

and just as an off note... when i saw john mayer play denmark, he hardly talked at all... it was so crazy...